>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> I THINK THE UKRAINIANS ARE VERY WELL PREPARED.

AS YOU KNOW, THE UNITED STATES AND OTHER ALLIED COMPANIES HAVE PROVIDED TRAINING, MUNITION AND ADVICE.

>> AMERICA'S TOP GENERAL SAYS UKRAINE IS READY TO ROLL AS BOTH SIDES CONTEST WHETHER A LARGE SCALE OFFENSIVE HAS BEGUN.

CORY SHACKY WITH THE FOG OF WAR.

>> THE FACT IS, I'M JUST HEARING THEIR STORIES.

THEY'RE THE ONES LIVING THEM, SO FOR ME TO CRY, IT FEELS LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, A BIT OF A SELF-INDULGENCE.

>> THE LISTENER, A NEW FILM DIRECTED BY STEVE YOSEMI LOOKS AT AMERICA'S MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS THROUGH THE EYES OF AND EARS OF ONE HEALTH LINE VOLUNTEER.

>> THE HIDDEN COST OF THOSE LOOKING AFTER OUR LOVED ONES.

PLUS -- A PITCHER NOTCHES A WIN AGAINST CANCER.

I SPEAK WITH LIAM AND CHRISTY HENDRIKS ABOUT HIS EMOTIONAL JOURNEY BACK TO THE MOUND.

>>> A.M. MAN POUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND.

SUE AND EDGAR WALK KEN HEIM III CANDACE KING WEIR.

JIM AT WOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LAYLA WELSH.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUAN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COUNTRIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

WE TRY TO LIVE IN THE MOMENT, TO NOT POLICE WHAT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF US.

AT MUTUAL OF AMERICA WE BELIEVE TAKING CARE OF TOMORROW CAN HELP YOU MAKE THE MOST OF TODAY.

MUTUAL OF AMERICA RETIREMENT GROUP, RETIREMENT SERVICES AND INVESTMENTS.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> A WARM WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M PAULA NEWTON IN ATLANTA SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

IN MOSCOW THE MINISTRY OF DEFENSE SAYS WITHOUT EVIDENCE, I'LL ADD, THAT IT THWARTED A LARGE SCALE ATTACK BY UKRAINIAN FORCES ATTEMPTING TO BREAK THROUGH SOUTHERN DEFENSES IN SOUTHERN DONETSK.

KYIV SAYS SWITCHING TO OFFENSIVE ACTIONS IN SOME DIRECTIONS BUT CLAIMS RUSSIA IS TRYING TO DISTRACT FROM MILITARY CHALLENGES ELSEWHERE.

IN FACT, FOR NOW KYIV'S MESSAGE IS MUM'S THE WORD.

HERE'S A VIDEO SHOWING UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS CALLING FOR OPERATIONAL SILENCE AROUND ANY NEW OFFENSIVE.

SO, WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING ON THE BATTLE FIELDS IN EASTERN UKRAINE?

DEFENSE ANALYST CORY SHACKY HAS WORKED ON SECURITY POLICY, BOTH INSIDE AND OUTSIDE THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, INCLUDING A STINT AS SENIOR ADVISER TO JOHN McCAIN'S CAMPAIGN.

SHE'S AT THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE.

IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU ON BOARD FOR THIS, ESPECIALLY AS YOU HAVE JUST BEEN ON THE GROUND IN UKRAINE.

LET'S START WITH THAT FOG OF WAR, WHICH I'M HOPING YOU CAN CLEAR FOR US.

IT'S IMPOSSIBLE REALLY FOR ANY OF US TO REALLY KNOW WHAT'S EXACTLY GOING ON ON THE BATTLEFIELD AND REALLY PUT ANY KIND OF EVIDENCE TO WHAT RUSSIANS ARE CLAIMING.

THEY SAY THEY THWARTED A UKRAINIAN ATTACK.

ON THE OTHER HAND, WE'VE HEARD THE UKRAINIANS ARE DENYING IT.

WHY HAS THIS WAR PIVOTED SO MUCH ON PROPAGANDA AND PERCEPTION RATHER THAN WHAT WE SEE HAPPENING ON THE BATTLEFIELD?

>> BECAUSE THERE'S AN VNG IN CREATING A SENSE OF MOMENTUM AROUND ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER.

THIS IS MODERN WARFARE.

ALL OF US ARE PAYING ATTENTION IN REAL TIME, WATCHING VIDEOS IN REAL TIME WHICH MEANS THERE IS ADVANTAGE TO WHICHEVER SIDE PROOFS GOOD AT IT.

AND THE UKRAINIANS HAVE PROVEN INCREDIBLY GOOD AT INFORMATION OPERATIONS AND SHAPING HOW WE THINK ABOUT THE WAR.

>> YEAH.

THE LITTLE VIDEO OF SILENCE THERE WAS QUITE CHIKY THERE AND THAT'S FOLLOWED UP WITH A HIGH PRODUCTION VIDEO.

IN TERMS OF CONSEQUENTIAL INPUT, THE U.S. TOP GENERAL, CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF MARK MILLITALKED TO CNN ABOUT WHAT'S AT STAKE.

LISTEN IN.

>> I THINK IT'S TOO EARLY TO TELL WHAT OUTCOMES ARE GOING TO HAPPEN.

I THINK THE UKRAINIANS ARE VERY WELL PREPARED.

AS YOU KNOW VERY WELL, THE YOU STATES AND OTHER ALLIED STATES HAVE PROVIDED MUNITION, ADVICE, TRAINING AND WE'RE SUPPORT BEING THEM.

IT'S A THREAT FOR THE VERY SURVIVAL OF UKRAINE AND HAS GREATER MEANING FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD, FOR EUROPE, THE UNITED STATES AND FOR THE GLOBE.

>> I WILL ADD TO WHAT GENERAL MILLEY SAID THERE, HE HOPED THE COUNTER OFFENSIVE WOULD CHANGE, IN HIS WORDS, THE DYNAMIC OF THIS CONFLICT.

WHAT ARE THEY BOTH GETTING AT?

CAN WE ASSUME UKRAINE HAS THE WEAPONS AND MANPOWER TO MOUNT A SUCCESSFUL COUNTER OFFENSIVE?

>> WELL, AGAIN, AS GENERAL MILLEY SAID, IT'S HARD TO TELL.

IT'S HARD TO TELL WHETHER AN OPERATION CAN SUCCEED.

IT'S HARD TO KNOW.

IT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE THE RUSSIAN MILITARY HAS BECOME SO BRITTLE THAT WHEN HIT WITH A HAMMER OF AN OFFENSIVE THEY MAY CRACK.

WE JUST DON'T KNOW UNTIL IT STARTS, BUT I AGREE THAT UKRAINE IS INCREDIBLY WELL PREPARED FOR THIS.

WE HAVE BEEN HELPING OTHER NATO COUNTRIES, OTHER WESTERN COUNTRIES, INCLUDING JAPAN HAVE BEEN PROVIDING REALLY IMPORTANT ASSISTANCE TO UKRAINE.

SO THEY WILL HAVE EVERY POSSIBLE ADVANTAGE AND THEY WILL NEED IT BECAUSE LOOKING OUT INTO THE FUTURE, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF HAS COMMITTED THAT WE WILL GIVE UKRAINE ALL THE SUPPORT THEY NEED FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES FOR THEM TO RECLAIM THEIR INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED TERRITORY ALLOWING RUSSIA TO FREEZE THIS CONFLICT WHILE REMAINING ON UKRAINIAN TERRITORY WOULD BE AN INCREDIBLE DANGER TO THE PEOPLE OF UKRAINE AND ALSO UNJUST IN PAYMENT FOR THE TERRORS THAT RUSSIA HAS UNLEASHED.

>> YEAH.

IN FACT, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAS WARNED OF HAVING A SO CALLED FROZEN CONFLICT.

THE U.S.

BELIEVES THE UKRAINIAN COUNTER OFFENSIVE WILL HELP KYIV TAKE BACK, IN THEIR WORDS, STRATEGICALLY SIGS CAN'T TERRITORY.

LET'S LISTEN TO JAKE SULLIVAN SPEAKING TO CNN.

>> WE WANT TO SUPPORT UKRAINE MAKING AS MUCH PROGRESS ON THE BATTLEFIELD SO IT IS IN AS STRONG A POSITION AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE.

WE BELIEVE THIS COUNTER OFFENSIVE WILL ALLOW UKRAINE TO TAKE STRATEGICALLY SIGNIFICANT TERRITORY BACK FROM RUSSIA.

AREAS OCCUPIED BY RUSSIA THAT ARE RIGHTFULLY SOVEREIGN UKRAINIAN TERRITORY.

EXACTLY HOW MUCH IN WHAT PLACES, ON THE GROUND AS THE UKRAINIANS GET THIS COUNTER OFFENSIVE UNDERWAY, BUT WE BELIEVE THE UKRAINIANS WILL MEET WITH SUCCESS IN THIS COUNTER OFFENSIVE.

>> CORY, YOU'VE BEEN LISTENING TO UKRAINIAN COMMANDERS ON THE GROUND.

DO THEY BELIEVE THEY'RE KIND OF HANDICAPPED, THEY'D BE IN A STRONGER POSITION IF THEY HAD THE F-16 FIGHTER JETS?

>> WELL, YES, OF COURSE THEY WOULD BE IN A STRONGER POSITION IF THEY HAD THE ABILITY TO PREVENT RUSSIA FROM POSING AN AIR THREAT.

ATTACKS ON UKRAINIAN CIVILIANS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT I WANT TO PICK UP ON A POINT JAKE SULLIVAN SAID THERE BECAUSE HE SOUNDS VERY CONDITIONAL, YOU KNOW, THAT THE MILITARY OPERATIONS ARE A PREPARATION FOR NEGOTIATIONS AND I THINK THAT'S A MISTAKE IN FRAME OF REFERENCE FOR THIS CONFLICT.

NO UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT COULD CONSENT TO LEAVE UKRAINIANS OR UKRAINIAN TERRITORY IN RUSSIAN HANDS GIVEN THE WAR CRIMES THAT RUSSIA HAS PERPETRATED THERE.

AND SO MILITARY FORCE IS GOING TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, EITHER IN UKRAINE'S FAVOR OR RUSSIA'S FAVOR BECAUSE NEITHER SIDE IS GOING TO NEGOTIATE WHAT THEY CANNOT HOLD BY FORCE OF ARMS.

>> YOU'RE SAYING IN TERMS OF SHAPING THE PEACE TABLE THAT PERHAPS THE U.S. AND ITS ALLIES HAVE IT ALL WRONG.

WHAT'S INTERESTING HERE, TOO, GIVEN YOU WERE ON THE GROUND, YOU HAD A VERY PROVOCATIVE HEADLINE IN THE ATLANTIC AND YOUR QUOTE IS BASICALLY BIDEN IS MORE FEARFUL THAN THE UKRAINIANS ARE.

WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THAT?

>> WELL, IT'S NOT SURPRIING PRESIDENT BIDEN IS MORE FEARFUL THAN THE UKRAINIANS ARE BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY AT WAR.

THEY ARE ALREADY EXPERIENCING BOMBARDMENT AND DEGRADATION AND THE BIDEN -- PRESIDENT BIDEN IS RIGHT TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT AMERICAN INVOLVEMENT, BUT THE POLICY CHOICES HE'S MAKING ABOUT THAT CONCERN ARE ACTUALLY INCREASING THE INCENTIVES TO RUSSIA TO THREATEN US WITH NUCLEAR BLACK MAIL.

IT'S INCREASING THE VALUE OF HAVING NUCLEAR WEAPONS FOR THRESHOLD STATES INSTEAD OF EXPRESSING OUR CONCERN ABOUT ESCALATION, WE SHOULD BE CONFIDENTLY TRYING TO SHAPE HOW THE RUSSIANS THINK ABOUT ESCALATING BY STRESSING THE DAMAGE THAT WILL COME TO RUSSIA IF THEY MAKE THAT KIND OF CHOICE.

>> YEAH.

AND YOU HAVE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TAKE THAN OTHERS HAVE, I WILL NOTE.

I DO WANT TO GET TO SOME OF CNN'S EXCLUSIVE REPORTING.

MULTIPLE SOURCES FAMILIAR WITH TRS TELLS US UKRAINE HAS A NETWORK OF SAAB BOW TURS INSIDE OF RUSSIA WHO ARE CARRYING OUT DRONE ATTACKS.

THEY ARE THE SAME SABOTAGE AGENTS BELIEVED TO HAVE ATTACKED THE KREMLIN IN A NEWS MAKING WAY.

IS IT A PRECEDENT FOR THIS KIND OF WARFARE?

HOW EFFECTIVE DO YOU THINK THIS IS?

>> I THINK IT'S VERY EFFECTIVE FOR SHATTERING THE RUSSIAN CONCEPTION THAT THEIR TERRITORY IS A SANCTUARY FROM WHICH THEY CAN PROSECUTE ATTACKS ON UKRAINE WITH NO FEAR OF REPRISALS.

THE U.S. AND OTHER NATO COUNTRIES HAVE HANDCUFFED UKRAINE TO NOT FORM MALI RETALIATING IN ARE RUSSIAN TERRITORY, BUT RUSSIAN FIGHTING ON UKRAINIAN'S SIDE CAN DO THAT.

WE USED TO CALL THIS POLITICAL WARFARE OR THE WORK OF INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES.

SO IT'S NOT AT ALL SURPRISING THAT UKRAINE WHO HAS BEEN SO CREATIVE, SO ADAPTIVE TO THE CONSTRAINTS THEY ARE FIGHTING THE WAR UNDER HAS FOUND A WAY TO TAKE UKRAINE'S SIDE IN THE WAR AND PERPETRATE SABOTAGE.

THAT'S PRETTY COMMON IN WARFARE.

>> GIVEN THE REALITIES OF THE GROUND, THE FRATERNAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN UKRAINIANS AND RUSSIANS AND IF THEY WOULD HAVE PEOPLE WILLING AND ABLE TO CARRY THIS OUT.

I WANT TO TURN TO CHINA IN THIS ENTIRE EQUATION.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY SAID IN THE WALL STREET JOURNAL, CHINA COULD PLAY AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN BRINGING PIECE.

HE SAID PRESIDENT XI COULD STEP THINGS UP.

HE WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT CHINA'S INVOLVEMENT.

>> WE BELIEVE CHINA SHOULD PLAY A CONSTRUCTIVE ROLE IN HELPING BRING ABOUT AN END OF THE WAR IN UKRAINE.

IT IS UP TO CHINA AS TO WHETHER IT'S GOING TO LEAN IN HERE TO SUPPORT THAT PRINCIPLE OF SOVEREIGNTY AND INDICATE TO RUSSIA THAT IT WILL STAND BEHIND AN OUTCOME IN WHICH UKRAINE GETS ITS SOVEREIGNTY BACK.

>> I'M REALLY CURIOUS TO GET YOUR -- THAT WAS JAKE SULLIVAN WITH CNN.

I'M INTERESTED TO GET YOUR TAKE ON THIS.

DO YOU THINK THAT THAT IS REALLY RICHFUL THINKING, THAT CHINA SHOWS NO SIGNS OF BEING CONSTRUCTIVE IN THIS CONFLICT?

>> I DO.

I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION IS RIGHT TO TRY AND CORRAL CHINA INTO PLAYING A CONSTRUCTIVE ROLE, BUT IT SOUNDS A LOT LIKE THE WAY WE ALWAYS TRY AND CORRAL CHINA INTO PLAYING A CONSTRUCTIVE ROLE IN RESTRAINING NORTH KOREA'S NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION.

CHINA DOESN'T WANT ITS CLOSE ALLY RUSSIA TO FAIL AT THIS, BUT THEY ALSO DON'T WANT TO LOOK LIKE THEY'RE NOT UPHOLDING THE U.N. CHARTER.

SO THEY TALK NONSENSE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE STATE SOVEREIGNTY WITHOUT CRITICIZING RUSSIA'S ATTACKS ON THE SOVEREIGNTY OF UKRAINE.

SO I DON'T THINK IT'S LIKELY THE CHINESE ARE GOING TO BE HELPFUL.

CHINA'S PEACE PROPOSAL WOULD ESSENTIALLY SEE UKRAINE SEEDING TERRITORY AND POPULATION TO REWARD RUSSIA'S AGGRESSION, AND I DON'T THINK THIS UKRAIIAN GOVERNMENT WANTS TO DO THAT.

I DON'T THINK UKRAINIANS WANT TO DO THAT.

I DON'T THINK A UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT COULD STAY IN POWER IF IT DID.

>> THAT IS A SOBERING ASSESSMENT IN WHAT CHINA COULD BRING TO BEAR.

APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU, PAULA.

>>> NEXT TO AN EMERGENCY OF A DIFFERENT KIND.

90%, 90, OF AMERICAN ADULTS BELIEVE U.S. IS FACING A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS.

I KNOW MANY OF YOU CAN RELATE.

THAT'S ACCORDING TO A SURVEY BY CNN AND THE KAISER FAMILY FOUNDATION.

SO WHAT IS IT LIKE FOR THE FIRST RESPONDERS TRYING TO HELP?

AND IT'S THE QUESTION AT THE HEART OF THE LISTENER, A NEW FILM FOLLOWING A HELP LINE VOLUNTEER PLAYED, I WILL SAY IMPECCABLY, BY TESSA THOMPSON AS SHE ANSWERS CALLS THROUGH THE NIGHT.

HERE'S A CLIP.

>> DOES IT MAKE YOU CRY?

>> SOMETIMES, BUT THE FACT IS, I'M JUST HEARING THEIR STORIES.

THEY'RE THE ONES LIVING THEM SO FOR ME TO CRY, IT FEELS LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, BIT OF A SELF-INDULGENCE.

IT ISN'T ABOUT ME.

I'M -- I'M JUST HERE TO LISTEN.

>> RIVETING PERFORMANCE THERE.

THIS IS DIRECTED BY AWARD WINNING ACTOR AND DIRECTOR STEVE SEMI KNOWN FOR HIS MEMORABLE ROLES IN EVERYTHING FROM RESERVOIR DOGS TO THE SOPRANOS.

EARLIER I SPOKE WITH STEVE ALONG WITH DR. VARBA VAN DELLIN WHO WAS BEHIND THE FIRST PUBLIC CAMPAIGN FOR SUICIDE PREVENTION.

WARM WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

STEVE, I WANT TO START WITH YOU.

THIS FILM, A SINGLE CHARACTER SKETCH.

THE SUPPORTING CAST, AUDIO ONLY, AND OF COURSE THERE IS DOG, BUT AUDIO ONLY.

THAT'S PLAYED BY TESSA THOMPSON.

YOU KNOW, SHE'S NOT IN THE MOLD OF A PROTAGONIST TO PLOT FORMULA.

YOU MUST HAVE KNOWN THE RISK INVOLVED HERE.

WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO DIRECT THIS FILM?

>> WELL, YEAH, I DID UNDERSTAND THE RISK, BUT IT WAS ALSO JUST A WONDERFUL CHALLENGE.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE WRITING WAS JUST SO POWERFUL AND MOVING.

THE SCRIPT WAS WRITTEN BY ALLASANDRA KOMON, AND IT WAS JUST ALL THERE ON THE PAGE.

AND, YEAH, I WOULD OCCASIONALLY, YOU KNOW, WAKE UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND GO, HOW AM I GOING TO DO THIS?

BUT THEN I WOULD ALWAYS GO BACK TO THE SCRIPT AND JUST, YOU KNOW, THE POWER OF THE CHARACTERS.

YEAH.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, UNDERSTANDING TESSA'S CHARACTER IS THE ONLY ONE THAT YOU SEE ON SCREEN, YOU KNOW, WE HAD JUST A WONDERFUL CAST OF ACTORS WHO ARE THE CALLERS AND YOU HEAR THEIR VOICES.

YOU KNOW, OUR GOAL WAS TO MAKE IT AS CINEMATIC AS POSSIBLE, AND WE WERE ABLE TO DO THAT BECAUSE SHE WORKS FROM -- FROM HOME.

AND SO THAT SHE'S NOT TETHERED TO ONE SPOT, YOU KNOW, IN FRONT OF HER COMPUTER SCREEN.

SHE WAS ABLE TO MOVE AROUND HER PLACE, EVEN GO OUTSIDE.

SO WE HAD A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, TOOLS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE COULD USE TO MAKE IT AS CINEMATIC AS POSSIBLE.

>> DOCTOR, AS A MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL YOU'VE WORKED TIRELESSLY TO CREATE THE FIRST NATIONAL PUBLIC HEALTH CAMPAIGN ON SUICIDE PREVENTION.

SPECIFICALLY THOUGH, WHAT DOES THE LISTENER CONVEY TO US ABOUT YOUR REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE?

THE FACT THAT THESE HELP LINES ARE A LIFE LINE.

DO THEY TRULY MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN MENTAL HEALTH?

>> THEY ABSOLUTELY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

WE KNOW THAT HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS ARE KEY FOR OUR WELL-BEING, OUR MENTAL HEALTH.

WE KNOW THAT SOCIAL CONNECTION, PEER RELATIONS, THESE KINDS OF LIVE LINES, HOTLINES, THEY ABSOLUTELY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

THEY GIVE PEOPLE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE, TO CONNECT WITH OTHERS WHO HAVE RESOURCES, BUT MOSTLY WHO WANT BE TO LISTEN, WHO ARE THERE HELPING THEM IN A TIME OF CRISIS.

WHAT WE ALSO KNOW IS THAT THE CHALLENGE THAT WE HAVE IS THAT THE LISTENER CONVEYS TO US, PROVIDES THIS WINDOW INTO WHAT THE REALITY IS, WHICH IS THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE SUFFERING AND STRUGGLING ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS THINK ABOUT, OKAY, THE LIFE LINES ARE CRITICAL.

WARM LINES, HOTLINES, BUT BEYOND THAT THERE'S SO MUCH MORE THAT WE NEED TO DO.

WE'RE MAKING PROGRESS BUT WE NEED TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT THAT EACH OF US CAN ACTUALLY DO TO REALLY ADDRESS THIS CRISIS, THIS GROWING CRISIS.

SO, YES, THESE LINES ARE LISTENING IS CRITICAL.

MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT, ALL OF THIS WORKS, SO MUCH MORE WE CAN DO AND THAT, TO ME, IS THE IMPORTANT MESSAGE IN "THE LISTENER."

>> IT IS DIFFICULT NOT TO BE OVERWHELMED BY EVERYTHING WE SEE.

STEVE, AS A VIEWER, I FOUND MYSELF DREADING EACH AND EVERY CALL.

ALL I WAS DOING IS WATCHING THE FILM, THE DESPAIR ON THE OTHER END OF THE LINE, SO DIFFICULT TO HEAR, YET THE CHARACTER, BETH, RIGHT, PLAYED BY TESSA THOMPSON, SHE DIDN'T WANT PEOPLE TO HANG UP.

LET'S LISTEN NOW TO BETH PLAYED, IMPECCABLY, I WILL SAY, BY TESSA THOMPSON OPENING UP TO A CHARACTER VOICED BY BECCA HALL.

LET'S LISTEN TO THAT NOW.

>> IS IT HARD?

I DON'T MEAN DIFFICULT, I MEAN -- YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

>> YES.

SOMETIMES.

>> WHAT'S THE HARDEST THING ABOUT IT?

>> WHEN THE CALLER HANGS UP.

NOT ALWAYS BUT SOMETIMES YOU JUST WANTED TO KEEP TALKING AND YOU CAN'T CALL THEM BACK SO YOU JUST WONDER, DID I UPSET THEM?

DID I FAIL THEM?

>> BUT THEY WERE ALREADY HURTING.

>> YES.

>> SO IT WAS ALREADY HARD.

>> YES.

>> SHE JUST WANTED TO KEEP TALKING.

STEVE, THAT IS DEFINITELY A PIVOTAL POINT IN THIS FILM, "THE LISTENER."

DID YOU WANT TO MAKE CLEAR TO THE AUDIENCE THAT BETH'S MENTAL HEALTH HANGS IN THE BALANCE THERE?

>> YES.

I WANT TO CLARIFY, BETH, SHE WORKS FOR A WARM LINE, MEANING THAT PEOPLE CAN CALL AND JUST TALK.

IF SHE SENSES THAT THEY ARE IN REAL TROUBLE THEN SHE WILL TRY TO GET THEM TO CALL AN EMERGENCY LINE OR A CRISIS HOTLINE OR, YOU KNOW, GET SOMEBODY TO THAT PERSON.

THIS CALL THAT SHE GETS, REBECCA HALL, SHE SENSES THAT REBECCA'S CHARACTER IS -- SHE'S -- SHE'S IN TROUBLE.

SHE'S TALKING ABOUT ENDING HER LIFE, BUT MORE IN A THEORETICAL WAY.

AND JUST BECAUSE SHE DOES NOT WANT BE TO -- SOMETIMES PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO CALL A CRISIS HOTLINE.

SO BETH IS A VOLUNTEER, AND SHE'S BEEN THROUGH IT HERSELF.

AND IN THIS PARTICULAR PHONE CALL SHE IS -- SHE DECIDES TO SORT OF BREAK PROTOCOL AND DO SOMETHING SHE WOULDN'T NORMALLY DO.

FOR BETH, THIS IS IMPORTANT THAT SHE REACH HER AND MAKE THAT CONNECTION AND KEEP HER ON THE LINE TO KEEP -- TO KEEP TALKING.

AND BY THE END OF THAT CALL SHE DOES -- SHE DOES MAKE THAT CONNECTION AND I THINK PROVIDES A LOT OF RELIEF TO REBECCA'S CHARACTER.

YOU KNOW, JUST OPENS UP THIS DIALOGUE.

AND I THINK A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE JUST WANT TO BE HEARD.

THEY -- THEY REALLY JUST WANT SOMEBODY TO LISTEN AND TALK WITH THEM, AND SOMETIMES THAT'S ALL THEY NEED, YOU KNOW, TO GET THEM THROUGH THE NIGHT.

AND BETH WORKS AT NIGHT BECAUSE THIS IS WHEN MOST OF THE DIRE PHONE CALLS COME IN.

>> YEAH.

THAT'S MADE CLEAR.

IT'S WHEN THE LONELINESS IS MOST PROFOUND.

DOCTOR, WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THE VULNERABILITY WE SEE THERE IN SFWHET THE SPECIFIC QUESTION FOR ME IS IT IS DIFFICULT, OBVIOUSLY, FOR THESE VOLUNTEERS TO DEAL WITH THESE CALLS NO MATTER HOW WELL TRAINED THEY ARE.

I KNOW DURING THE PANDEMIC EVERYONE WAS HOME WHETHER IT WAS A VOLUNTEER OR NOT.

DO YOU THINK IT'S BETTER TO HAVE A TRADITIONAL SETUP WHERE THE PEOPLE HAVING TO DEAL WITH THE PHONE CALLS ARE NOT ALONE THEMSELVES, CAN GET SUPPORT, GET TRAINING, IN THAT WAY GIVE SOME BETTER HELP ALONG THE WAY ALONG THE LINE?

>> I DO THINK IT IS A REALLY INTERESTING PART OF THIS STORY, BETH.

SHE LETS US KNOW AT THE BEGINNING THAT SHE NEEDS TO TAKE A BREAK.

AND SO YOU'RE RIGHT.

REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE SETTING IS, WHETHER IT'S SOMEONE IN THEIR HOME OR -- BECAUSE YOU CAN ALSO, AS YOU CAN WELL IMAGINE, TAKING ON THESE ISSUES, HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS, YOU CAN BE IN A ROOMFUL OF OTHER OPERATORS AND BE ALONE WITH IT.

SO WHAT'S KEY IS HOW THOSE ORGANIZATIONS, AND MANY OF THEM DO AMAZING WORK, PROVIDING SUPPORT.

RECOGNIZING THE NEED TO SUPPORT THE WORKERS, THE VOLUNTEERS.

YOU KNOW, AND WE HEAR IN THESE STORIES AS SHE'S TAKING THESE CALLS, YOU KNOW, THAT SOME OF THE MATERIAL THAT'S COMING IN IS -- IT'S GRAPHIC.

IT'S PAINFUL.

IT'S TROUBLING.

WE KNOW THE IMPACT THAT THAT HAS ON ALL OF US.

IN FACT, THAT IN AND OF ITSELF CAN CAUSE TRAUMA FROM WHAT SHE HAS ALREADY CLEARLY EXPERIENCED IN HER LIFE.

SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE THE WHOLE SPECTRUM OF OFFERINGS, IF YOU WILL, SO THAT PEOPLE FIND ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS EQUATION, WHAT WORKS BEST FOR THEM WHEN THEY'RE IN NEED FOR HELP, CALLING A WARM LINE, GETTING IN TO SEE A THERAPIST, GETTING IN TO A PEER SUPPORT GROUP, AND ALSO WHAT'S MOST HELPFUL TO MAKE SURE THEY DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO WHICH IS LIFE SAVING WORK.

>> I'M GLAD YOU MADE A FINE POINT OF THAT.

THE IN MANY CASES, IT IS LIFE SAVING WORK.

RENDERING THIS FILM YOU CLEARLY HOPE TO INSTILL A SENSE OF UNDERSTANDING IN ALL OF US AND A SENSE OF HOPE.

CAN YOU BRING US TO THE FINAL SCENES IN "THE LISTENER" AND WHAT YOU WERE TRYING TO CONVEY THERE?

THERE SEEMS TO BE A SENSE OF RELEASE THERE.

>> IN THE PHONE CALL I TALKED ABOUT, THERE WAS ANOTHER PHONE CALL IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FILM VOICED BY ALEAH CHOQUETTE, SHE'S STRUGGLING WITH BEING BIPOLAR.

SHE'S MANIC IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND BETH CAN SOMEHOW TAP INTO THE CREATIVITY, JESS'S CHARACTER, BETH.

SHE GETS OFF THE PHONE, ALEAH'S CHARACTER, BUT THEN CALLS BACK LATER.

THIS SOMETIMES HAPPENS.

YOU CAN DO THIS WITH A WARM LINE.

IF YOU TALK WITH A VOLUNTEER THAT YOU LIKE, YOU CAN REQUEST THEM BY NAME LATER.

AND SHE CALLS BACK, AND FOR TESS'S CHARACTER IT IS SO MOVING THAT ALEAH'S CHARACTER CALLS BACK BECAUSE SHE WAS INSPIERTD BY SOMETHING THAT TESS'S CHARACTER SAID TO HER.

AND IT OPENED UP THIS CREATIVE OUTLET WITHIN -- WITHIN HER.

SO I THINK THAT PHONE CALL, ALONG WITH REBECCA'S PHONE CALL, I THINK SHE FEELS A REAL SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT THAT SHE REALLY -- SHE WAS REALLY HELPING.

THAT'S NOT TRUE WITH EVERY PHONE CALL.

SOMETIMES SHE GETS FRUSTRATED BECAUSE SHE CAN'T KEEP THE PERSON ON THE LINE OR SHE FEELS LIKE SHE DIDN'T GET ENOUGH, YOU KNOW, OR SHE DIDN'T -- YOU KNOW, SHE WASN'T ON HER "A" GAME.

THERE ARE THOSE PHONE CALLS WHERE SHE DID FEEL LIKE I DID MAKE A CONNECTION AND WHAT I DID TRULY MATTERED.

>> YES.

IT SHOWS US HOW IMPORTANT EVEN ONE CONNECTION AT THE WHITE HOUSE WILL MAKE.

WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WHAT IS A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS THAT AFFECTS US ALL.

>> THANK YOU.

REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>>> SO THE LISTENER IS SCREAMING AT THE TRIBECA FILM FESTIVAL.

FOR INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVALS VISIT THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR SUICIDE PREVENTION AND IN THE UNITED STATES YOU CAN CALL 988, THAT'S 988 TO REACH THE NATIONAL SUICIDE PREVENTION LIFE LINE.

>>> LOOKING AFTER LOVED ONES IN NEED MAY SEEM LIKE A SIMPLE DECISION, BUT CARE GIVING, AS SO MANY OF YOU KNOW, IS NO SMALL TASK.

THOSE THAT DO IT, YES, USUALLY ARE WOMEN AND ARE OFTEN FORCED TO MAKE MAJOR LIFE CHANGES WITH VERY LITTLE SUPPORT.

IN HER NEW BOOK "WHO CARES, THE HIDDEN CRISIS OF CARE GIVING AND HOW WE SOLVE IT."

EMILY SHARES HER STORY OF BEING THE SOLE CAREGIVER FOR HER MOTHER AND SHE STRESSES WHY GOVERNMENTS NEED TO VALUE THIS KIND OF VITAL WORK.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> I HAVE TO SAY THAT A NUMBER OF COLLEAGUES OF MINE READ YOUR BOOK, AND WE ALL HAD THE SAME REACTION, WHICH IS WE ALL FOUND OURSELVES HAVING TO TAKE BREAKS BECAUSE IT WAS JUST TOO -- IT WAS JUST TOO REAL.

IF IT'S NOT TOO PAINFUL EVEN NOW, TELL US YOUR PERSONAL STORY AS BRIEFLY AS YOU CAN.

>> SO MY MOM, SHE GOT CANCER.

SHE HAD THAT CLASSIC EXPERIENCE OF FEELING MORE AND MORE TIRED.

AT THAT TIME SHE WAS A POWERFUL, BUSY WOMAN AROUND 60.

UNFORTUNATELY SHE HAD LEUKEMIA AND LYMPHOMA.

SO SHE WAS EXTREMELY UNWELL FOR THREE OR FOUR YEARS.

AND IN AMONGST ALL OF THIS SHE HAD CHEMOTHERAPY, STEM CELL TRANSPLANT AND BECAUSE SHE'S SINGLE, BECAUSE MY SISTER HAS LITTLE KIDS I WAS THE PRIMARY DWIFR.

I WAS A CLASSIC YOUNG WOMAN'S LIFE.

I WAS BUILDING A CAREER IN SOMETHING I FELT VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT AND SUDDENLY IT WAS EFFECTIVELY LIKE I BECAME A PARENT OVERNIGHT FOR A PARENT IN A VERY SAD SITUATION.

IT MADE ME REALIZE, THIS IS HAPPENING EVERYWHERE AND NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT IT.

>> I THINK THERE ARE THOSE WHO WOULD SAY WHY DON'T YOU JUST PAY SOMEBODY TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR MOM IN THOSE YEARS WHEN SHE WAS REALLY DECLINING?

>> YEAH.

SO, IT'S ACTUALLY A VERY COMMON ASSUMPTION THAT YOU CAN ADDRESS THE CARE OF YOUR LOVED ONES BY PAYING SOMEONE, BY OUTSOURCING IT.

YES?

ONE OF THE THINGS I'M VERY CLEAR ABOUT IN THE BOOK IS I SAY SHE HAD CANCER AND IT SOUNDS LIKE ONE EVENT AND IT CHANGED EVERY WEEK, EVERY MONTH.

THERE ARE INFECTIONS.

THERE ARE REJECTIONS OF TREATMENT.

THERE'S DEPRESSIONS.

THERE'S SUDDEN BODILY BITS NOT FUNCTIONING OR SOMETHING CHANGES.

ALSO, LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO NEED CARE PREFER TO HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS DO T RIGHT?

OR THEY MIGHT SAY THEY'D LIKE PAID CARE WORKERS BUT THEY PRETEND THEY DON'T CARE FOR A REALLY LONG STRETCH TIME.

YOU HAVE TO DO IT WHILE YOU WAIT FOR THEM TO COME TO TERMS ON THEIR OWN VULNERABILITY.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO CAN'T SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES, LITERALLY CAN'T SPEAK OR HAVE COGNITIVE IMPAIRMENTS.

YOU DO NEED TO DO QUITE A LOT OF WORK NAVIGATING SYSTEMS FOR THEM, CHECKING THINGS ARE BEING DONE AND SO ON.

THE FINAL REASON IS LUCK.

SO I WOULD HAVE WANTED TO BE WITH HER MORE SUPPORTED THAN I WAS, BUT I ABSOLUTELY WOULDN'T HAVE FOREGONE IT.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK YOU CAPTURE SO WELL IN YOUR BOOK IS HOW -- AND IN OTHER WRITINGS HOW YOUR WORLD GETS SO SMALL.

FROM THE BEDROOM TO THE BATHROOM, FROM THE HOUSE TO THE DOCTOR OR TO THE HOSPITAL.

I JUST WONDER HOW YOU REALIZED THAT, WAS IT WHILE IT WAS OVER OR WHILE TVs GOING ON?

>> VERY MUCH WHILE IT WAS GOING ON.

I WAS VERY AWARE FRIENDS WERE LIVING NORMAL LIVES AND I WASN'T.

A COUPLE OF TIMES I WOULD ARRANGE TO GO ON HOLIDAYS WITH FRIENDS, CLIMBING IN SCOTTISH MOUNTAINS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND WASN'T ABLE TO GO BECAUSE MY MOM HAD A TURN FOR THE WORSE OR I COULDN'T GET SOMEONE TO COVER ME TO LOOK AFTER HER.

IT WAS VERY APPARENT IN A VERY PRACTICAL, VERY PHYSICAL BUY HAVE SHRUNK AND CHANGED.

I THINK THIS IS WHY CAREGIVERS END UP SO ISOLATED, RIGHT?

THE SHAPE OF OUR LIVES IS SO DIFFERENT TO WHAT IS CONSIDERED THE NORM.

WE ALMOST DON'T EVEN KNOW ANYMORE HOW TO TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT OUR DAILY LIFE LOOKS LIKE.

>> AS WE MENTIONED, THE TITLE OF YOUR BOOK IS "WHO CARES."

WHO ARE WE SPEAKING ABOUT HERE?

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CARE GIVING, WHO ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

>> LOVED ONES WHO ARE LONG TIME UNWELL, DISABLED, FRAIL ACTUALLY.

HISTORICALLY THIS HAS BEEN A SMALLER PROPORTION OF CARE GIVING THAN PARENTING WHICH MIGHT BE A PART OF PARENTING.

NOWADAYS WITH LONGEVITY, AGING POPULATIONS, IT'S BECOMING MUCH MORE PREVALENT AND PEOPLE ARE CARING FOR LONGER NOW.

PEOPLE ARE LIVING WITH ADVANCED DEMENTIA FOR 20 YEARS OR SO NOW.

THE SCALES ARE SWINGING IN THE OTHER DIRECTION AND WE HAVEN'T CAUGHT UP WITH IT.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN EACH COUNTRY.

56 MILLION ROUGHLY IN THE U.S.A. ABOUT 6 MILLION IN MY U.K., AND ALSO THE ANSWER TO INJURY QUESTION, WHO KEARSE, LATE?

I SHOULD SUBTITLE THE BOONL, WOMEN.

THEY'RE DOING THE MAJORITY OF THIS KIND OF CARE.

AND THAT'S ALSO TRUE IN CAN YOU BE TRIS LIKE SWEDEN WHERE THEY HAVE VERY HIGH RATES OF GENDER EQUALITY BY OTHER MEASURES.

IN THE BOARD ROOM, IT'S STILL WOMEN WHO ARE DOING MOST OF THIS CARE.

IT'S DEFINITELY AN ISSUE THAT IS BOTH OF KIND OF FEMINISM AND OF POLITICS MORE BROADLY.

IT'S VERY MUCH RELATED TO THE CHILD CARE ISSUES.

THE IDEA WE NEED AN INCOME AND WE NEED TO LOOK AFTER PEOPLE.

WE HAVE NOT MANAGED TO SORT THAT EQUATION OUT AT ALL EVEN THOUGH IT'S FUNDAMENTAL TO THE SMOOTH RUNNING OF OUR SOCIETY.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS THAT WE HAVE NOT FIGURED THIS OUT, ESPECIALLY COUNTRIES THAT ARE WEALTHY IN SORT OF GLOBAL TERMS?

WHAT'S YOUR THEORY ABOUT WHY IT IS THAT IT'S SO LITTLE A PART OF OUR UNDERSTANDING OF OUR SOCIETY?

>> THERE ARE A FEW REASONS WHY WE'RE COMPLETELY FAILING ON IT, AND ONE OF THEM IS THE TYPE OF CAPITOLISM WE HAVE.

SO ECONOMISTS WOULD SAY CAPITOLISM AS WE'VE CURRENTLY CONSTITUTED IT WORKS ON THE BASIS OF OUTSOURCING THE THINGS THAT ARE NEEDED TO KEEP REPRODUCING AND TAKING CARE OF LIFE, RIGHT?

NOT COST IN THOSE THINGS AND WE CAN SEE THAT VERY, VERY CLEARLY IN OUR WORKING POLICIES.

WE DON'T HAVE PAID LEAVE TO TAKE CARE OF CHILDREN OR FOR CAREGIVERS OF SICK LOVED ONES.

THEY'RE NOT HAVING TO PRIETS IN THE COSTS OF THAT SO PROFIT IS ABLE TO BE MADE WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY HEED TO THAT.

NOW ACTUALLY THANKFULLY THERE ARE VOICES IN BUSINESS SPACES THAT ARE KIND OF SEEING THE LIGHT, PERHAPS BECAUSE THEY'RE HAVING EXPERIENCES IN THEIR OWN WORLDS THAT ARE TELLING THEM THEY'RE UNTENABLE.

PERHAPS BECAUSE THR WOMEN LEADERS MORE AND MORE.

PERHAPS BECAUSE THERE ARE ANALYSIS THAT SAY THERE ARE GOOD REASONS TO DO IT FROM A PRODUCTIVITY AND TURNOVER PERSPECTIVE.

THERE ARE GLIMMERS OF HOPE.

THERE'S ALSO THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE A VERY GENDERED PERSPECTIVE ON THIS OF WHO OUGHT TO BE PROVIDING CARE FOR SOMEONE.

IT'S NOT FOR ME TO SAY WHO SHOULD DO WHAT WITH THEIR LIFE.

I WOULD NEVER HAVE WANTED TO CARE FOR MY MOM.

I WISH SHE WOULD HAVE NOT BEEN SICK BUT IT IS NOT SOMETHING I WOULD HAVE GIVEN TO SOMEONE ELSE TO DO.

HOWEVER, WE DO NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE PROVIDING CARE IN THE HOME, THAT'S NOT WITHOUT A COST, RIGHT?

THERE IS A COST THERE AND IT'S A COST BEING BORNE SILENTLY BY WOMEN AROUND THE WORLD.

IT STRIPS US OF INCOME.

IT STRIPS US OF PENSION SAVINGS.

WE WILL HAVE WOMEN WHO ARE ABSOLUTELY IMPOVERISHED BECAUSE THEY CARED FOR SOMEONE WHO WAS A LOVED ONE.

>> I WAS STRUCK BY THE REPORTING ON THIS.

WOULD YOU SHARE A COUPLE OF STORIES THAT REALLY STRUCK YOU?

>> YEAH.

THANK YOU.

IT WAS A VERY IMPORTANT THING, I FELT, TO DO A GLOBAL PORTRAYAL OF IT.

ONE OF THE PEOPLE I ENCOUNTERED WAS A YOUNG WOMAN CALLED IISHA.

WE'RE ABOUT THE SAME AGE, WHICH IS QUITE BEAUTIFUL.

SHE'S IN KATHMANDU IN NEPAL AND I WAS ALL THE WAY IN LONDON.

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLDS, DIFFERENT CULTURES, THOUSANDS OF MILES APART.

IISHA HAD HELPED HER MOM CARE FOR HER DAD WHO HAD CANCER AND THEN HER MOM HAD GOT CANCER SHORTLY AFTER THAT AND SHE HAD BEEN HER MOM'S PRIMARY CAREGIVER.

SO WE HAD SORT OF HAD SIMILAR PATHS THOUSANDS OF MILES APART.

A SEE SHAH HAD BEEN MIDWAY THROUGH AN VERNE BEINGSAL ECONOMICS DEGREE.

LIKE MANY CAREGIVERS, SHE LOST A DREAM THAT SHE HAD.

THAT IS ONE OF THE MAJOR EFFECTS OF OUR FAILURE TO SUPPORT CAREGIVERS.

SHE HAD MAJOR PHYSICAL REPERCUSSIONS FROM THE EXTREME STRESS SHE WAS UNDER.

SHE HAD A BRAIN ANEURYSM A YEAR AFTER CARING FOR HER MOM.

SHE WAS IN A COUNTRY WHERE THERE'S LESS GOVERNMENT PROVIDED SERVICES THAN THE U.K. OR THE U.S., YOU KNOW?

SO IT RELATELY HAD BEEN COMPLETELY ENGULFING FOR HER AND SHE WAS ON HER WAY OUT OF THAT WHEN WE MET.

>> WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE IF UNDERSTANDING THAT CARE IS GOING TO BE PART OF YOUR LIFE AT SOME POINT WERE NORMAL, WERE EXPECTED?

WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE?

>> I THINK THERE'S LAYERS ON IT.

THE ON THE DAY-TO-DAY PERSONAL LEVEL, IT WOULD LOOK LIKE HAVING REAL STRONG BONDS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE AROUND YOU WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE YOUR BIOLOGICAL FAMILIES.

WE NEED TO STOORT CULTIVATING THE ART OF CREATING BONDS WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE AROUND US AND CAN STEP IN AND SUPPORT US.

THAT'S TIME AND ENERGY AND WE DON'T HAVE THAT IF WE'RE ALL WORKING ALL THE TIME.

ONE OF THE REALLY KEY PARTS OF THIS IS TO REBALANCE WORK AND CARE, RIGHT?

TO DETHRONE FROM ITS PRIMACY IN OUR LIVES AND TO SAY, YOU ARE HUMAN.

YOU LOVE PEOPLE.

THOSE PEOPLE HAVE BREAKABLE BODIES.

THIS MEANS YOU CANNOT WORK ALL THE HOURS AND DAYS OF YOUR LIFE BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO NEED TO DO THINGS WITH KNOWS PEOPLE, WHETHER THEY'RE BABIES OR A KID WITH THE FLU FOR A WEEK OR A PARENT WITH DEMENTIA, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL THROUGH OUR LIVES.

SO WE HAVE TO REBALANCE THIS.

I READ A REPORT FROM THE U.N. LOST TO CARE EVERY DAY.

HOW MANY CARE DAYS ARE LOST TO, WOULD, RIGHT?

BUT COMING BACK TO YOUR POINT, THERE ARE TRIALS OF FOUR DAY WORKING WEEKS THAT VOF THE SAME AMOUNT OF PAY AS PEOPLE HAD FOR FIVE DAYS.

NO LOSS IN PAY AND THEY ARE TAKING PLACE AROUND THE WORLD AND THEY ARE WORKING REALLY WELL BECAUSE PEOPLE WORK BETTER WHEN THEY WORK FEWER HOURS AND THERE ARE LOTS OF BUSINESSES DELIBERATELY PUTTING THAT INTO PLACE AND POLICY.

WE ALSO NEED TO HAVE CAREGIVERS INCOME, RIGHT?

IT'S SO CRAZY THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GET PAID IS IF YOU GO AND ENROLL IN A HOME HEALTH CARE SIGNATURE A AND THEY CONTRACT YOU.

WE HAVE TO HAVE A GOVERNMENT SUPPORTED PROGRAM OF INCOME FOR MEME WHO NEED TO PROVIDE CARE.

WE ARE SEEING IN THE U.S. MORE STATES INTRODUCING PAID LEAVE FOR JOBS FOR CARE GIFRGS WHICH IS EXCITING.

THERE'S A MAN IN THE BOOK CALLED ERIC WHO CARED FOR HIS HUSBAND IN MINNESOTA.

ERIC EMAILED ME THREE DAYS AGO, HE SAID, EMILY, WE'VE WON PAID CAREGIVERS LEAVE HERE IN MINNESOTA.

I HAD TO TELL YOU.

IT IS HAPPENING.

IT'S HAPPENING IN LOTS OF STATES.

I THINK THESE THINGS ARE POSSIBLE BUT THEY WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE UNLESS WE ALL SHOUT FOR THEM.

THEY ARE THE TIREDEST.

THEY ARE THE CAREGIVERS.

WE NEED EVERYONE TO BE DOING AS WELL SO IT'S NOT ALL ON THOSE THAT ARE ALREADY BEING BROKEN BY THE SYSTEM WE HAVE TODAY.

>> I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO THE DETAILS, BUT WATCHING SOMEONE YOU LOVE WITHER AWAY IS SO HARD AND, YOU KNOW, YOU WERE THERE 24 HOURS A DAY 7 DAYS A WEEK FOR YEARS AND WHY IS IT YOU DIDN'T JUST WANT TO WALK AWAY?

WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO WRITE THIS LIFE FOR OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING IT NOW.

>> FOR ME, I FEEL LIKE IT'S A MORAL OBLIGATION.

I AM MUCH MORE YOUNGER THAN THE NORM.

I THOUGHT, CAN I USE SOME OF MY LIFE FORCE?

I DON'T HAVE CHILDREN YET.

I HAVE THIS SPACE AND ENERGY WHERE I COULD DO THIS THING.

COULD I HELP MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

I COULDN'T SWITCH OFF THE KNOWLEDGE IN EVERY STREET, WORKPLACE, COMMUNITY THERE'S SOMEONE RIGHT NOW GOING THROUGH WHAT I WAS GOING THROUGH, YOU KNOW?

AND THAT FELT TO ME LIKE I HAVE TO WRITE ABOUT THIS.

I HAVE TO PUT THIS IN PEOPLE'S FACES BECAUSE THAT PAIN IS SO REAL TO ME.

IT WOULD HAVE FELT LIKE AN IMMORAL ACT NOT TO DO SO.

>> WHAT WAS THE HARDEST PART OF IT?

>> THE HARDEST PART OF MY EXPERIENCE WAS WATCHING HOW HARD IT WAS FOR MY MOM, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.

WATCHING HER BE SO DESPERATELY UNHAPPY TO BE DYING.

SHE GOT VERY SICK.

SHE WORKED VERY LONG HOURS HER WHOLE LIFE, SOMETIMES SIX DAYS A WEEK.

WORK, WORK, WORK, WORK, WORK.

SHE GOT SICK WHEN SHE WAS AT RETIREMENT AGE.

THE ONLY TIME SHE GOT SICK TO POTENTIALLY GO OUT AND ABOUT WHICH WAS A COUPLE OF MONTHS WHICH OVERLAPPED WITH THE SAME TIME OF THE U.K. LOCKDOWN.

SO I WITNESSED THE KIND OF DEPTH OF SUFFERING THAT'S TAUGHT ME A LOT, I WOULD SAY, ABOUT HOW I INTEND TO LIVE MY LIFE AND HOW I HOPE I'M ABLE TO LOOK BACK ON MY LIFE IF AND WHEN I COME TO A PLACE WHERE I AM HAVING TO WITNESS MY OWN INCAPACITATION IN THAT WAY.

>> SO BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, THERE IS ONE THING YOU SAY OVER IN THE BOOK.

IF YOU THINK THIS DOESN'T APPLY TO YOU, YOU'RE WRONG.

EVERYONE IS GOING TO LIVE THIS STORY AT SOME POINT, EVERYONE.

I WONDER WHO DO YOU HAVE IN MIND WHEN YOU SAY THAT?

>> A FRIEND OF MINE DESCRIBES THE BERK IN THE EARLY STAGES.

I ENCOUNTER PEOPLE WHO THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT IS ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE.

THIS IS SOMETHING ABOUT GERIATRICS OR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T THEM, AND I JUST WANT TO SHAKE THEM AND SAY, FOR THEIR OWN GOOD, YOU KNOW, THIS IS COMING TO YOU.

IF YOU THINK YOU'RE FREE TODAY, IF YOU THINK YOU'RE INDEPENDENT IN SOME KIND OF GRAND WAY, YOU'RE NOT.

IF YOU LOVE ANYONE AND THEY ARE IN A HUMAN BODY, YOU SHOULD EXPECT TO PROVIDE CARE AND IF YOU DON'T PAY ATTENTION NOW TO WHAT CARE LOOKS LIKE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THE MOST HORRIFIC EXPERIENCE WHEN CARE DOES COME.

IN THE BOOK I'M SAYING, LISTEN TO US.

PLEASE MAKE THE CHANGE WE NEED.

>> WE THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> FINALLY, WHILE CARING FOR A LOVED ONE, AS WE JUST HEARD, IN CRISIS IS STRESSFUL, WE RIGHT NOW ARE GOING TO CELEBRATE A MUCH HAPPIER OUTCOME.

CHICAGO WHITE SOX PITCHER LIAM HENDRIKS NOTCHED A BIG WIN.

THIS WAS NO ORDINARY WIN.

IT WAS IN FACT A LIFE VICTORY FOR SOMEONE WHO ONLY SIX MONTHS AGO, THINK ABOUT THAT, WAS DIAGNOSED WITH CANCER.

[ CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ] >> THE CROWD WENT WILD WHEN HENDRIKS CAME BACK TO THE MOUND AFTER TREATMENT FOR STAGE 4 NONHODGKIN'S LYMPHOMA.

HE POSTED A VIDEO RINGING THE VICTORY BELL.

THAT WAS IN APRIL, JUST APRIL AFTER A BATTLE HE SAYS CHANGED HIS LIFE FOREVER.

LIAM HENDRIKS AND HIS WIFE JOIN ME.

SO GOOD TO HAVE YOU.

I WATCHED THE HIGHLIGHTS OF THE WIN.

THE LOOK ON YOUR FACE, UNMISTAKABLE.

YOU LOOKED EVERY INCH THE TERM NAIRT WHO ARE.

WHAT WERE YOU FEELING LESS THAN SIX MONTHS AFTER BEING DIAGNOSED WITH CANS SER?

>> IT WAS A QUICK LITTLE TURN AROUND BUT I GOT BACK INTO MY ANGRY PHASE.

IT WORKED FOR ME.

I CAME BACK TUESDAY, MONDAY?

THERE WAS A LOT OF EMOTIONS.

IT WAS REALLY HARD TO GET MYSELF BACK INTO MY FRAME OF MIND ON THE MOUND.

SUNDAY WAS GREAT.

I WAS BACK IN MY NORMAL KIND OF ELEMENT IN THE NINTH INNING AND A TIED GAME.

I LET THOSE EMOTIONS OUT, I PITCH BETTER ANGRY.

>> YOU WANT TO BE DONE WITH CANCER AND PITCH BETTER.

THIS WAS A WIN FOR THE FERRY BOOKS.

YOU POSTED THAT ON NATIONAL CANCER SURVIVOR'S DAY.

HAS THAT ACCOMPLISHMENT SUNK IN?

>> NO, NOT REALLY.

MY BIG THING NOW IS IRM' JUST TRYING TOW GIVE EVERYBODY AN OPPORTUNITY FOR HOPE.

THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE GOING FLEW THIS THAT MAY NOT HAVE THE SUPPORT SYSTEM THAT I HAD.

THE THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE GOING THROUGH IT THAT MAY NOT HAVE THE HOME SYSTEM.

IF I CAN GIVE THEM ANY LITTLE SEMBLANCE OF HOPE, AT THE END BE OF THIS, IT KICKED ME IN THE PANTS GETTING DIAGNOSED.

THE ONLY THING WE CAN DO IS TRY AND SPIN IT, RAISING AWARENESS AND FUNDING AND MAKING SURE PEOPLE HAVE SOMEONE TO POTENTIALLY LOOK TOWARDS AND SEE THAT THIS IS DOABLE.

>> CHRISTY, I WANT TO TURN TO YOU.

YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH LIAM'S SIDE.

MORE SPECIFICALLY, THROUGH BEDSIDE.

DIAGNOSIS, TREATMENT, RECOVERY.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THE LAST FEW MONTHS HAVE BEEN LIKE FOR BOTH OF YOU?

>> I ALWAYS SAY CHEMOTHERAPY IS LIKE TEN YEARS AND TEN MINUTES.

WHILE YOU'RE GOING THROUGH IT IT SEEMS SO LONG BUT THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF IT, IT'S JUST THIS ELATION THAT YOU HAVE THAT NOBODY CAN UNDERSTAND.

I'M SO PROUD OF HIM.

IT WAS SUCH AN INCREDIBLE MOMENT WHEN WE GOT THE P.E.T.

SCAN RESULTS BACK AND HE JUST, YOU KNOW, WAS CLEAR.

WE ENDED UP STILL DOING ANOTHER ROUND OF CHEMOTHERAPY AS AN INSURANCE POLICY, BUT WE COULDN'T BE HAPPIER.

WE'RE SO GRATEFUL TO BE BACK.

I CANNOT THANK THE DOCTORS AND TEAM AT MAYO CLINIC ENOUGH FOR PROLONGING MY HUSBAND'S LIFE.

>> THEY DO SEEM LIKE MIRACLE WORKERS.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT HIS DETERMINATION TO RETURN TO BASEBALL.

UNLIKE LIAM, MAYBE I'M WRONG, I PUT MYSELF IN YOUR SHOES AND I SAY, I DON'T CARE ABOUT BASEBALL, LIAM.

THIS NEEDS TO BE A LIFE SAVING TREATMENT.

DID YOU HAVE ANY RESERVATIONS ABOUT THE ADVERSITY HE WAS TAKING ON AND TRYING TO GET TO A HIGH LEVEL OF PLAY IN A COMPRESSED TIME LINE?

>> I THINK FOR ME BASEBALL BECAME LIAM'S SAVING GRACE.

IT GAVE HIM SOMETHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO BEFORE AND AFTER TREATMENT.

THERE WAS AN INCREDIBLE SALES TRAINING STAFF.

I FELL LIKE GOING THROUGH ANY TYPE OF TRIAL, YOU WANT TO BE IN A GREAT MINDSET.

I THINK MINDSET CHANGES EVERYTHING.

BEING ABLE TO BE OUT THERE.

HAVING A GOAL IN MIND.

JUST REALLY KIND OF TURN THE PAGE FOR HIM.

>> IT'S INSIGHTFUL THAT YOU CAN READ THAT GIVEN YOU WERE FIRST AND FOREMOST CONCERNED ABOUT THE WAY HIS LIFE WOULD BE.

YOUR CREATIVE WORK, IT IS PART OF YOUR DNA AND NOW IT'S AT A WHOLE OTHER LEVEL.

YOU SAW THE SUPPORT COMING BACK TO YOU.

WHAT DOES THAT FEEL LIKE?

WHAT DO YOU WANT CANCER PATIENTS AND SURVIVORS TO TAKE FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE.

IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT.

IT'S NOT THAT THEY CAN RELATE TO, AS YOU SAID, HAVING THAT INCREDIBLE SUPPORT SYSTEM BEHIND THEM.

YOU WANT THEM TO TAKE SOMETHING FROM THIS.

WHAT IS IT?

>> HOPE.

I WANT THEM TO TAKE AWAY HOPE.

THIS DOES AFFECT EVERYONE.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS KIND OF KEEPING US MOVING FORWARD AND THE BIG THING I WANTED TO GO TO.

THE WE'LL GET DIAGNOSED, THE BIG THING WAS WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE IT A POSITIVE.

THE ONE THING WE WANT TO DO IS -- I DON'T WANT TO CONSIDER MYSELF AND SAY, LOOK AT THE STORE, HE'S GONE THROUGH THIS, I KNOW I CAN GET THROUGH THIS THE SAME WAY.

>> CHRISTY AND LIAM, IF YOU COULD TAKE US DOWN THROUGH.

THE DARK TIMES.

WE SEE YOUR TRIUMPH AND EVERYTHING THAT WENT ON.

YOU COULDN'T HAVE BEEN ALL THAT CONFIDENT AT TIMES.

>> I THINK FOR ME WATCHING HIM GO THROUGH IT WAS A HARD AS A CONTROL FREAK THAT I AM, I JUST WANTED TO TAKE THAT PAIN FROM HIM.

HE HELPED ME IN MY CARE TAKERS ROLE BECOME POSITIVE AS WELL.

KNOWING THERE IS HOPE AFTER DARK IS AN INCREDIBLE LIGHT TO LIVE BY.

>> WHEN PEOPLE SEE YOUR EXTRAORDINARY PROGRESSION THROUGH BASEBALL, THEY ASSUME YOU'RE A SUPER ATHLETE AND SUPERMAN.

IS THAT TRUE?

IS THAT KIND OF HOW YOU HAD TO PERSEVERE?

>> PERSEVERANCE IS MY GIFT.

I DON'T THINK I'D BE IN THE POSITION I AM WITH HAVING TO PUSH THROUGH THE DAYS WHERE I'M NOT FEELING GREAT.

THE DAYS WHERE I'M A LITTLE SORE.

THE DAYS WHERE I DON'T THINK I CAN THROW.

NO, THIS IS MY JOB, I THINK I TOOK THAT SAME APPROACH WITH THE CANCER DIAGNOSIS.

LOOK, THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO TO CHANGE THIS RIGHT NOW.

ALL I CAN DO IS GET ON WITH IT, PUT IT ON THE MOST POSITIVE MIND SET WE HAVE.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, I'VE TALKED TO EVERYONE WHO GOES THROUGH, THIS IT'S HOPE.

I THINK THAT ONE IS ONE THING I STRESS TO ABSOLUTELY ANYONE GOING THROUGH THAT.

DEPRESSION OR ANXIETY IS REACH OUT.

DON'T BE AFRAID.

IF YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT IT, SHOOT HIM A TEXT.

HEY, HOW ARE YOU DOING?

THAT COULD CHANGE YOUR DAY OR BE A PIVOTAL MOMENT FOR YOU.

>> I ONLY HAVE TIME FOR A QUICK QUESTION, LIAM.

WE'RE GOING TO BRING IT BACK TO BASEBALL.

YOU'RE A CHIRPER.

YOU'RE GUILTY AS CHARGED.

I'M GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE NEW RULES IN THE GAME.

APPARENTLY THE REVIEWS HAVE BEEN GOOD FOR PITCH CLOCK.

WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON THE RULE CHANGES?

>> I'M A GUY WHO USUALLY COMES OUT IN THE FOURTH INNING.

I HAVE TO RAPIDLY GET THROUGH ALL OF MY PRE-GAME STUFF BECAUSE THE GAME IS GOING QUICKER.

I NEVER WORKED TOO SLOWLY.

I DIDN'T MIND.

A COUPLE LITTLE THINGS.

THERE WAS THAT GOING ON.

LITTLE THINGS LIKE THAT.

I THINK IT'S GREAT FOR THE GAME.

IT SHORES IT UP.

I GET MORE OF A CHANCE TO NOT GET HOME AT 12:00 AT NIGHT AND BE READY FOR A STREET RACE.

THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO SPEND IT FORWARD.

>> IT'S BEEN INTERESTING TO SEE HOW ALL OF THAT HAS EVOLVED.

I WILL SAY AGAIN, RELIEF PITCHER.

I'M SURE THEY HAD A BIG RELIEVE TO SEE YOU AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO SEE YOUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS ON AN INCREDIBLY WORTHY EFFORT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>> THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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